Wednesday, April 11, 2007

Why Won't Dolar Debate?

I don't have any particular insight into the reasons why Naisy Dolar will not show up to Ald. Stone's admittedly rigged debate. The suggestion that Stone had two chances (the Boone School and Chicago Tonight appearance) is lame and easily dismissed. It's not a real excuse, it must be something they thought of to hide their real reasons for ducking Stone's debate.

The Stone debate was the only opportunity we were going to have to take the measure of the two candidates side-by-side. Dolar slammed that door in our face. While we can criticize Stone's cowardice all we want (and some of us have), now the same must be said of Dolar. She's no different than Stone in this regard. The problem is that this opens the eyes to other things where Dolar may be no different than Stone.

Although I have no idea why she would pass on an opportunity to go toe-to-toe with Berny Stone, it does seem they feel like they are the front runner. Dolar won't show, my thinking goes, because she thinks she doesn't have to. She must think that she's ahead in the race.

Maybe she is. She has a SEIU poll that shows her with a 7 point lead and she has Jan Schakowsky's endorsement (the most important political figure in the ward according to everyone I've talked to; only the Stone sycophants on this site disagree with that conclusion). Maybe she is comfortably ahead enough to choose not to participate.

So who loses? We do. Democracy does. Dolar's word does. There are lots of casualties here.

Naisy Dolar had previously said that she was eager to debate Ald. Stone, and seemed to promise that she would do so under any circumstances. She must have meant eager to debate him only twice. We can't act surprised that Stone or his people would want to control the circumstances of the debate. Nor should we have been surprised by the way this has unfolded. How is it any different from 2003 or prior election years where Stone's been challenged? I suspect incumbents always want to control these things.

What is worrisome to me, though, is that Naisy Dolar is now acting like Berny Stone. She doesn't need to show up so she doesn't. Who does that remind you of? What can we expect from Dolar if she demonstrates she is only going to do what she has to, but not any more? This isn't a good sign if you want to see change in the ward.

Simply changing the face of the alderman is not enough. We need to see a change in attitude and a change in activity to make the neighborhood better. Dolar and her supporters should remember that voters are taking a risk by electing her. The 50th Ward would lose staffing under a Dolar administration, it would lose seniority, and it would lose the Mayor's ear. Dolar has to offer voters reasons to take that risk, and I don't think the bar is set especially high.

Acting like Stone, only doing the minimal necessary, may give pause to those considering taking that risk. If Dolar is no better than Stone, why should we risk it? Maybe Naisy Dolar is ahead enough in this race that it doesn't matter now. I suspect she thinks she is, since she's made the decision to pass on this opportunity. But some voters, especially in this part of the ward, needed her to stand up to Stone and demonstrate that she had what it takes before they could connect the lines for Dolar.

Naisy abandoned those voters yesterday.

Consider this an open thread on why Naisy Dolar decided to pass on Ald. Stone's debate and what that means for both Stone and Dolar. You are encouraged to give your predictions with percentages on who will win on Tuesday.

Labels: , , , , ,

55 Comments:

At April 11, 2007 7:27 AM, Anonymous Malik said...

Jay-

You answered your question in the first sentence:

" don't have any particular insight into the reasons why Naisy Dolar will not show up to Ald. Stone's admittedly rigged debate."

Think about it. Basically she would be attending a Stone rally.

 
At April 11, 2007 7:44 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is this the same SEIU polling that showed Greg Brewer would finish a close second on 2/27

 
At April 11, 2007 7:48 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Naisy should propose a debate for Friday April 13, set up all the details, get community groups to be so called sponsors, have it at a non ADA accessible, then invite stone via a local yahoo group website. When stone declines to accept the invite he can then be blamed for ducking a chance to debate, just like you are accusing Naisy.

 
At April 11, 2007 8:10 AM, Blogger Jay said...

Malik, according to news and eye witness reports, Dolar has already done this (Rockwell Devon shovelling and the Mayor's fundraiser). Why would this be different? That's the question.

 
At April 11, 2007 8:55 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jay
I will tell you in one nut shell
the Boone School debate was a setup. Pre written questions for Both candidates and had a week to study and prepare for a answer. I dont think Dolar is ready for a question out of the crowd. She has to know what to answer in advance. She could bring all the support to the debate she wanted.Dolar has showed up at 2 Stone Rallys in the past why is now different? I we the people dont understand. The only answer is she is afraid of not being able to answer a question in the sper of a moment.Where is the setup??

 
At April 11, 2007 9:41 AM, Blogger Hugh said...

> Naisy Dolar had previously said that she was eager to debate Ald. Stone, and seemed to promise that she would do so under any circumstances. She must have meant eager to debate him only twice.

WHAT? WHO YOU CRAPPIN?

Stone announced that he was running again last May, in the final minutes of his cable show. And right away he started in with the "anytime, anyplace" BS.

"I'm running for re-election next February ... And all of you how don't like me, don't hurt the neighborhood, RUN AGAINST ME for alderman. I INVITE you to run against me. ...And instead of hurting the neighborhood, RUN AGAINST ME. Challenge me on election day as opposed to hurting the neighborhood. ... In fact, unlike many other candidates who are in office, I'll debate you anywhere, anytime, give you a platform."

The Alderman Berny Stone Show
First air date 5/4/06

 
At April 11, 2007 9:45 AM, Blogger Hugh said...

Anytime, Anyplace, Anywhere

"I've offered to meet each and every one of them singly. I was ready to meet them individually. They're AFRAID to meet me individually. I STILL offer to meet them anytime, anyplace, anywhere. But they're not willing to meet me on an individual basis. They're AFRAID to meet me on an individual basis."

-Bernard L. Stone
79-year-old candidate for alderman,
The Alderman Berny Stone Show
2/15/07

 
At April 11, 2007 9:48 AM, Blogger Hugh said...

One Time, One Place

Anytime, anyplace, anywhere, except for Wednesday, January 17, 2007 at the
Viceroy of India.

Anytime, anyplace, anywhere, except for Wednesday February 7 at Boone School.

Anytime, anyplace, anywhere, except for Wednesday March 21 at Boone School.

Anytime, anyplace, anywhere, except for WTTW's Chicago Tonight.

Anytime, anyplace, anywhere, except for Passover.

Other than that, anytime, anyplace, anywhere.

I guess Stone meant "anytime, anyplace, anywhere" in the sense of "one time, one
place."

 
At April 11, 2007 10:01 AM, Anonymous age<>wisdom said...

JS said, "Dolar and her supporters should remember that voters are taking a risk by electing her. The 50th Ward would lose staffing under a Dolar administration, it would lose seniority, and it would lose the Mayor's ear."

Jay, you've been reading too many of Bernie's mailers. There is no risk in replacing Stone. We gain nothing from Stone's seniority, "experience" or access to the mayor. Stone gains, but not the ward.

 
At April 11, 2007 10:11 AM, Blogger Jay said...

I'm not defending Stone going back on his word. But I don't think that excuses Dolar from going back on her's. I was led to believe that I should expect more.

 
At April 11, 2007 10:17 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I sure wish someone would have told me that the only time Bernie Stone is willing to debate, Naisy Dolar isn't. That's rather disappointing.

 
At April 11, 2007 10:23 AM, Anonymous p.t. baer said...

Why won't Dolar debate? Dolar's campaign has listened to the pleas and advice of supporters and others, assessed the situation and decided that the harm caused by not showing up is less than the potential harm of performing badly. Dolar is a weak candidate with a strong profile. She looks good on paper or when propped up by supporters, but is weak on issues and can't think on her feet. She is justifiably afraid of facing Stone in an uncontrolled/uncontrolable situation. Stone is practiced in the art of the non sequitor and will direct any debate where he wants it to go. Naisy, on the other hand, showed up at a public meeting on the Touhy Western TIF with a written statement which she read verbatim. She did her thinking ahead of time and was not prepared to adjust to what was actually happening in the meeting. Look how she stumbled on WTTW with friendly Phil Ponce. Imagine what Stone would do to her, that is, if he even gave her an opportunity to speak. That's why Dolar won't debate.

 
At April 11, 2007 10:36 AM, Blogger Hugh said...

> The 50th Ward would lose ... the Mayor's ear.

This is the myth of the Vice Mayor as Daley's right hand man.

FACT is Daley doesn't consult ANY Alderman on ANYTHING on any regular basis. Why should he? What, are you from out of town?

If you ask Daley who his closest confidants are, he is famous for saying EVERYBODY is his friend, he talks to EVERYBODY.

Daley is just as likely to take a call from a freshman alderman as a 79-year-old man.

 
At April 11, 2007 10:45 AM, Anonymous p.t. baer said...

Does it make a difference? Probably not. Only a relatively small group of mostly Dolar supporters are even aware of the proposed debate. I imagine that most of them support her decision not to participate even though they think Stone should have participated under essentially the same conditions. But there must be others like me who are extremely disappointed in her failure to seize this opportunity and turn the tables on Stone. Some may be disappointed enough to stay home on election day.

A majority of voters voted against Stone in February, so I'm not surprised that Dolar should be ahead in the polls. But as others have said before, there's only one poll that matters. In a close election, the candidates' ability to get out the vote will make the difference. Stone has the clear advantage in being able to drive voter turnout. Dolar cannot afford to alienate even a small number of potential voters in the final days of the campaign.

 
At April 11, 2007 11:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd like to see Naisy at the debate, Stone-rigged or not (and I'm a Naisy supporter) but with things looking up for her less than a week before voting day, she can afford not to show. Check out this Sun-Times chart of early voters for the runoffs, city-wide:

Article link: Early voters out in force in 50th Ward

2nd Ward: 552
3rd Ward: 213
15th Ward: 191
16th Ward: 176
18th Ward: 488
21st Ward: 322
24th Ward: 197
32nd Ward: 439
35th Ward: 553
43rd Ward: 510
49th Ward: 681
50th Ward: 1,002
Note: Totals are through April 8th

As of Sunday, there were 47% more early voters in the 50th Ward than in the second most active ward. Those are amazing numbers for which 50th Ward residents should give themselves pats on the back.

Such high voter activity -- and in a runoff, when no one except regular voters show, and those votes always go to the incumbent -- does not bode well for the incumbent. High voter activity signals interest in the challenger: the kind of voters who normally don't care about runoffs are so unhappy with the status quo that they're willing to take that extra step for the challenger.

Everyone, including Stone, knows he's in trouble.

He also knows that in a local election generating that much activity, opinions of the incumbent and the challenger do not change less than a week before voting day. So everything from now on is all about getting your voters out (and, alternately, discouraging your opponent's voters). Hence, Daley's unusual appearance at a Stone rally yesterday, and the extra $10K from a Daley PAC. Come to think of it, that's why Stone called out Naisy to a rigged debate less than a week before voting day: it won't change anyone's mind, but it can give voters who are leaning Naisy a reason not to participate in the runoff. Not a bad voter suppression tactic on Stone's part, though I still think it's too little too late.

It's all ground game from here on out, baby! Go go go, Naisy!

 
At April 11, 2007 11:18 AM, Anonymous Jim in Chicago said...

Jay,

If the Chicago Bears were offered a chance to play the Colts again, but with the understanding that the Colts would start the game with a 21 point lead and that the referee could declare the game over anytime he felt like (i.e., if the Bears got too close), should the Bears take the offer? If you answered NO to that question, why should Dolar take Berny's patheticly transparent "offer"?

At least the WRPCO forum was sponsored by a 3rd party which had already sponsored a candidate forum in the primary. And I defy you to offer ANY legitimate excuse for Mr. "Anytime, anyplace, anywhere" to refuse to go on Chicago Tonight (which offered to schedule the appearance whenever Berny could do it).

To liken Dolar's turning down this obvious trap to Berny's cowardice and hypocricy is the kind of "equivalence" reporting I've come to expect from our national "mainstream" press, which will turn even questions of hard science into "he said, she said" scenarios (see Gore's coming book "The Assault on Reason"). I expected better from you.

 
At April 11, 2007 11:40 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A biased SEIU poll is indicitive ONLY of how desperate Dolar and SEIU are.Most likely the poll was never taken,or if it was the results SKEWED.SEIU is DESPERATE to MAKE its INVESTMENT look has if it had an impact.DOLAR and SEIU are giving a SMOKE and MIRRORS SHOW.

 
At April 11, 2007 12:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I followed Hugh's link to that yahoogroup of concerned citizens and had to laugh. What a bunch of morons with their internal petty fighting! Embarrassing that they are in my neighborhood. It figures they are Dolar supporters. It also just appears to be another site for Hugh to post his links with a bunch of other people with too much time on their hands and not too much brains or insight to see who can stroke Naisy the most--do THEY want jobs if she wins???? And I urge you all to follow Hugh's links--especially the utube sites because you may realize, as I did, that Stone has a firm grip on the facts and is pretty plain speaking in a Lou Grant kind of way. I didn't particularly like him before I watched the utube spots--but now I do.

I've been studying this closely. Stone would kill Dolar in a debate. She is basically an air brain, albeit very ambitious and with a mean streak--look what she pulled on Brewer at the last minute.

I also noted with amusement that there was some controversy on the yahoogroup about Naisy actually posting a link to that moronic site in support of her campaign????? Really have to suspect her judgment on that. At any rate, someone complained (must be a neophyte--how could anyone read that site and not recognize it is a Naisy Dolar love fest?) and asked the Dolar people to pull it. They did and said it was a mistake--but put it back on this morning!!!!! Taste of what is to come. I'd rather have Berny Stone gruffly be rude to me than to have Naisy Dolar "feel my pain" and then go ahead to do the opposite.

At any rate, watch Hugh's links, and decide for yourself. I'm going to cast my early vote for Stone. And there are a lot of Stone signs on the west side of this ward . . . and I'm sure Winston Towers votes.

 
At April 11, 2007 12:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am truly dissapointed in Naisy. I had hoped she would put her head up and go to the debate.She crashed Rockwell Devon shovelling and the Mayor's fundraiser. Why would this be different? That's the question.

 
At April 11, 2007 12:57 PM, Blogger Hugh said...

> The 50th Ward would lose staffing

Stone's CRONIES stand to lose jobs. Stone controls discretionary budgets for the Vice Mayor and the Building Committee. But he uses the dough not for the WARD but to create patronage jobs for the Stone Friends & Family Plan. Taxpayers would WIN because some near-retirees will retire, and every year Stone carries them on the public dole their monthly retirement checks go up. The WARD would lose nothing except some lie-abouts.

 
At April 11, 2007 1:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If Naisy can't show up at a debate, how is she supposed to survive in City Council???? She could continue with her cutsey little front row girl "I went to Decatur" line but the City Council are meat eaters and she would get eaten alive. But she is a backstabber so who knows maybe she will be more vicious than any of them.

Election night will be interesting. I have no idea who will win.

 
At April 11, 2007 1:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I totally agree with PT BAuer. Naisy lacks substance but could probably do well in marketing.

I went to that WEstRogers Park list serve too and was appalled--does Naisy really think the comments on that group will help her???????

Stone ought to publish the link. That would counteract his daughter's f u comments.

 
At April 11, 2007 1:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

hugh said:

Daley is just as likely to take a call from a freshman alderman as a 79-year-old man.

What drugs are you on Hugh????? Stone speaks the Mayors language.

 
At April 11, 2007 1:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Aaaah,You SEE,The voters DO see that the REAL Naisy is like the "Wizard of Oz",behind THAT CURTAIN lies the TRUTH!

 
At April 11, 2007 1:44 PM, Anonymous Jim in Chicago said...

"Stone speaks the Mayors language."

Yep, he sings the Mayor's tune alright: Stone is a rubber stamp for Daley and asks nothing for his Ward in return -- the 50th ranks last in $ for city services over the last 12 years. From Mayor Daley's standpoint, what's not to like?!

 
At April 11, 2007 2:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mayor Daley is a STRONG supporter of Berny Stone.Last night apprx.500 people crammed the CROATIAN CULTERAL CENTER,where members of the 50th ward's MOSAIC of CULTURES ,to HONOR their loyal FRIEND,ALD.STONE. MAYOR DALEY was the Keynote Speaker,before a gathering so representative of the how the 50th Ward ,under Stone's Leadership, is the NATION'S Greatest EXAMPLE of AMERICA AT ITS FINEST.The communities HONORING STONE included the INDO/PAK,BENGLADESHI,MUSLIM,HINDU,SEIKH,CROATIAN,BOSNIAN,AND HISPANIC.In addition to the members of these various 50th ward communities,their COMMUNITIES' LEADERSHIP, and STATE TREASURER ALEXI GIANNOULIS and COOK COUNTY COMMISIONER LARRY SUFFREDIN joined STONE and DALEY on the podium.TREASURER GIANNOULIS also gave a HEARTFELT ENDORSEMENT of STONE.

 
At April 11, 2007 2:33 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

JIM,THE CARPETBAGGER FROM DFA TEAM WHACKO DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT.As a Disguised Fascists of America member, Jim is a veteran practitioner of those POLITICAL PROPAGANDA techniques that are known as the "BIG LIE".

 
At April 11, 2007 2:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jimbo said "If the Chicago Bears were offered a chance to play the Colts again, but with the understanding that the Colts would start the game with a 21 point lead and that the referee could declare the game over anytime he felt like (i.e., if the Bears got too close), should the Bears take the offer?"

Now, gentlemen, let me ask you this: What if da Bears were all 14 inches tall, you know, about so high? Now, what's your score of today's game?

Bears 18, Giants 10. And that would finally be a good game.

Yeah, it would be a good game. Mini Bears 24, Giants 14.

What about Ditka? Would he be mini, too?

No, he would be full-grown.

Oh, then, uh.. Mini Bears 31, Giants 7.

 
At April 11, 2007 3:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
hugh said:

Daley is just as likely to take a call from a freshman alderman as a 79-year-old man.

What drugs are you on Hugh????? Stone speaks the Mayors language.

April 11, 2007 1:07 PM


I believe that hugh lives in his own reality but he will get awakening on April 18.

Any ways Stone has the mayors ear, Dolar would be lucky to get the mayors left overs from last week.

 
At April 11, 2007 3:47 PM, Anonymous p.t. baer said...

If Naisy and Berny are staying home, then I'm staying home, too. I'll be watching the pre-election edition of The Alderman Berny Stone Show hosted by toothless (literally and figuratively) Avy Meyers.

Thursday, 4/12, 7:30 pm, CAN TV 19
Friday, 4/13, 2:30 pm, CAN TV 19

 
At April 11, 2007 3:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bears Giants what are U smokin? can you speak english.
This is about Dolar not showing...
She has let people down.

 
At April 11, 2007 4:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jay you do pick some interesting campaign topics to blog about. However what are you going after next Tuesday when you are layed off from this blogging job?

 
At April 11, 2007 4:17 PM, Blogger Bernard said...

New YouTube!

Stone: On Democracy

Bernard L. Stone, 79-year-old candidate for alderman from the 50th ward of Chicago, shares his views on ballot initiatives, participatory democracy, and community process.

Just 2 minutes 40 seconds.

 
At April 11, 2007 4:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

More Naisy incorrect statements


http://www.chicagoist.com/archives/2007/04/11/hump_day_political_news_roundup.php

there is a difference between backing out and not agreeing in the first place

 
At April 11, 2007 4:36 PM, Anonymous Malik said...

Anon 4:25 PM

Let's not forget that Naisy ever agreed to show for Stone's bogus debate. The reality is Stone wants things on his terms or no terms at all. Naisy participated in the 2 opportunities that were offered by 3rd parties. She is only passing on the shame debate set-up by the Stone team.

Also, I believe Stone is the only candidate to have passed on the Chicago Tonight opportunity.

 
At April 11, 2007 4:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did the Public Affairs guy interview Dolar and Brewer too? He was tough on Stone and I thought he was an aggressive interviewer--what a nice change! Stone held up well--I don't think Naisy could hold up beyond the touchy feely stuff. Brewer at least was smart.

 
At April 11, 2007 4:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Avy has no teeth??? He must have a good mouth guy. . . And Avy truth is an absolute defense to the libel charges you through around. . . .

 
At April 11, 2007 5:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Malik is part of Dolar's carpetbagging "campaign team".Most likely he is an Iranian Gentleman who is a professional staff member of icirr as an"organizer".Tell us "malik" what role is the "BLAME AMERICA FIRST"icirr play in the Dolar campaign.What water are Marissa and you fishing in?

 
At April 11, 2007 5:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

ANON.7:48 A.M. PROPOSES A FRIDAY THE 13TH DEBATE. HOW UN- CONSIDERATE OF OBSERVANT JEWS THIS PROPOSAL IS.WHAT CAN YOU EXPECT OF THOSE WHO ARE RUNNING A RACE/ETHNIC FOCUSED CAMPAIGN.

 
At April 11, 2007 5:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

All speculation aside--who knows what these early voting numbers can mean in the 50th ward . . . If someone was watching the demographics and doing exit polling, we MIGHT have some idea. It will be exciting that's for sure.
Quite frankly, I'm not that wild about either one of them but at least I feel as if I wouldn't get suckerpunched by Old Berny.

 
At April 11, 2007 5:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.Unfortunatly,the same cannot be said about the Morris"owned"site,where Morris is becoming more arrogantly meglomaniac with his every post and action. While proclaiming himself a Free-Speech loving ,liberal,fair,great neighbor,Hank is employing Fascist methods to control the messages on his FAKE community forum.Never thought I would see this type of HATRED in this neighborhood.It seems as if there is only one FAIR POSTER on the Morris site,DEBRA H.,but Morris will BAN her for asking fair and legitimate questions very soon;she is already UNDER ATTACK FOR HER OPEN-MINDEDNESS.

 
At April 11, 2007 6:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think Friday the 13th is a grand day for a debate. But you are right--it should not be on the Sabbath.

 
At April 11, 2007 6:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hugh is once again trying to DUPE Morris'site readers with his lies and hallucinations. One thing is certain-HUGH'S obsession with smearing STONE is reaching GUTTER-LEVEL.

 
At April 11, 2007 8:05 PM, Anonymous fact checker said...

Has Hugh posted anything that is not backed up legitimate sources? I can't understand your disinformation campaign against Hugh when he cites numerous sources for his information. He provides links to the relevant facts and links to video and audio of our soon to be ex-alderman

 
At April 11, 2007 9:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fast checker is most likely a disguised, INCOGNITO Hugh.-Hugh draws his desired conclusions by twisting public records and old newspaper stories into some pretzel shaped libelous CONSPIRACY THEORY,aimed at incumbents.Hugh is getting DEEPER into an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE;by Tuesday,one can only imagine what nonsense Hugh will be posting.Hold on,THE WORST OF HUGH IS ON THE WAY.

 
At April 11, 2007 9:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Question for Hugh--Why do you do it? What is the root cause of this personal hatred towards Stone?And spare us all the nonsene of another lie about Stone.Hugh,you like to ask questions,NOW answer one--WHY?

 
At April 11, 2007 9:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

somebody said, "Avy has no teeth???"

Not NO teeth, but not as many as he'd like. An unfortunate reference to his missing front tooth visible in recent episodes.

 
At April 11, 2007 11:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's the deal with Avy? Never watched his show before until one of Hugh's links led me to it. What's with the scissor thing in the beginning? Is that a joke? Is he on all year round?

He was easy on all the candidates, just letting them talk. Was that a stop watch he has in his hands?

I was very impressed with the Public Affairs interviewer. The best thing about this election is learning about the bagel place on Touhy and finding Public Affairs.

 
At April 12, 2007 12:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I watched Hugh's link to "Stone on Democracy." Stone is actually right on. He's from a generation of people who have largely retired or died and are very pragmatic about human nature and how things work and I miss them. People have no idea about the judicial candidates and for the most part have no idea about the referendums before they go to the voting booth. Senn was an exception.

I guess the main problem with Stone after watching it is that he doesn't have higher expectations of the electorate. But, at 79, with 34 years in politics, he knows a lot more about it than I do.

Wish he was wrong, but the fact that Bush swept the last election on "social" issues and the fact that [most] people only started getting upset about the war in Iraq when it cost them more to fill up their SUVs--when the evidence was there along--leads me to believe that he's right.

Too bad there wasn't a debate where the two candidates just addressed each other directly.

 
At April 12, 2007 12:13 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Two points. First, it was interesting in the interview in Public Affairs that Stone wholeheartedly endorsed Obama--not Clinton.

Second, he said he disagreed with Daley about enforcing immigration laws. (I agree with the Mayor) but Stone just said the law should be upheld.

 
At April 12, 2007 1:31 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hit the link from the Naisy Dolar website to the comment portion of the yahoo group which was in defense of her position not to debate. The link led to the March 11th letter sent from Michael Moses which is copied below. Since I was able to manuveur around the site after hitting the link, I searched for the history of the debate. Readers can judge for themselves. (I will point out that Moses sent notice on March 11 that Stone would not be debating on 3/20 and sent the proposed debate (for 4/12) on 3/18. The Dolar camp apparently did not respond until 3/31, which is 13 days after receipt). Seems things could have moved a bit more quickly, especially with the extensive list of counterproposals to be agreed upon in 4 days) if there was an intent to debate. If interested, take the time and read it:

Sent Sunday, March 11th:
To: West Rogers Park Community
From: Michael C. Moses
Re: WRPCO Forum on March 21, 2007

Alderman Stone will not be participating in the West Rogers Park
Community Organization Forum on March 21, 2007. The WRPCO had
described the event as a forum which is "A public meeting place for
open discussion". Even after discussion with the group about
changing the number of pre-written questions and format it was
determined that this would not be in fact a "forum" format. The
WRPCO has insisted on a pre-set list of written questions given to
the candidates a week before the forum that represent the views that
the WRPCO group wants to advance. We informed the WRPCO that we did
not want any pre-written out questions be given to the candidates
before the forum takes place. One of the problems with the WRPCO
forum format is that this gives an opportunity for "homework" to be
done instead of a chance for the candidates to clearly display their
clear and unrehearsed view of the current issues, problems and
developments of our community. A representative of our community
must be one who not only is abreast of the current issues but also
one who can think on his or her feet and not read from a script.
This format also clearly limits the ability to clearly express and
convey the many emerging issues in our community and city.

Alderman Stone will instead participate in a debate co-sponsored by
three or four local community groups in April to be announced.

-----Original Message-----
From: Zachary S. Schiffman [mailto:z.schiffman
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 7:14 AM
To: Steve Andrews; Leslie Ramyk; Brian White

To: The West Rogers Park Community

From: Zach Schiffman, West Rogers Park Community Organization

Re: WRPCO Candidates' Forum on 21 March 2007

The attached message from Michael Moses has been brought to my attention.
Since I am not a member of the Yahoo group where it was posted, I am
forwarding a response in the hope that one of you will post it. What follows
is a factual account of the events surrounding the planning of the West
Rogers Park Community Organization's Candidates' Forum:

1. On Wednesday, 28 February, Alderman Stone agreed on WBEZ to meet
Naisy Dolar in a candidates' forum.
2. On Friday, 2 March, Chris Brown--the Chair of WRPCO--called Alderman
Stone with our offer to sponsor the event. Because we had already sponsored
one highly successful candidates' forum, and because we are a strictly
non-partisan organization, Alderman Stone quickly agreed to our proposal to
sponsor a forum consisting of prepared questions submitted by WRPCO and
spontaneous questions from the audience, provided that the alloted time for
answering the questions be expanded to three minutes (instead of two). We
duly modified the rules to suit the alderman.
3. On Wednesday, 7 March, Michael Moses contacted Chris Brown and me on
behalf of Alderman Stone proposing further rules changes, specifically (a)
changing the start time from 7:30 to 7:00, (b) shortening the forum from an
hour and a half to one hour, and (c) eliminating the prepared questions. We
responded that (a) we had already begun advertising the event, and that
changing the start time would create confusion, (b) that we were willing to
make the lengh of the event flexible and shorten it if questions from the
audience seemed to slacken, and (c) that we were willing to sharply curtail
our prepared questions, so that at least 3/4s of the event (if not more)
would be devoted to spontaneous questions from the audience. We were very
reluctant to eliminate the prepared questions entirely because, as I
explained to Michael Moses, the WRPCO has become identified with certain
"signature issues"--such as education--that we would like to see addressed
by the candidates.
4. On Friday, 9 March, Michael Moses informed us that the alderman would
not participate in the forum as proposed, and we informed him that we would
hold the forum as scheduled and that the alderman was welcome to attend.
5. On Sunday, 11 March, Michael Moses posted his attached message.

These are the facts; let the alderman's actions speak for themselves.

Zach Schiffman
WRPCO

SENT Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:34 from M. Moses:

On behalf of the Stone campaign I contacted the Dolar campaign and
extended an invitation for a debate between Alderman Stone and Naisy
Dolar on April 12, 2007 from 7:00-8:00 p.m. The format is:

Opening Statement by Candidates
Questions from the Audience
Closing Statements by the Candidates

The debate is sponsored by:

Peterson Park Improvement Association
Jewish Community Council of West Rogers Park
Pakistan American Business Association

The Dolar campaign manager has not confirmed their attendance as of
this date.

Michael C. Moses


SENT Wed Apr 4, 2007 6:11 pm from Naisy Dolar:

>>Dear Friends,

I'm writing to update you on the status of the candidates' forum
that Mike Moses has been discussing with this group.

First, I very much appreciate Greg Brewer's endorsement of my
campaign, and I thank him for raising several important questions
about the forum.

Second, on March 31st, my campaign manager, Marissa Graciosa,
emailed the response below to Mr. Moses, asking to resolve a number
of issues before I could confirm my participation.

Third, Mr. Moses emailed back, proposing a location that
unfortunately has turned out not to be ADA-accessible. (When we
participated in an earlier candidates' forum at the Viceroy banquet
hall, which was also ADA-inaccessible, a number of our supporters
had a difficult time navigating up and down the stairs, and we do
not want to have such barriers again.)

We are continuing to discuss this and other logistical issues with
Mr. Moses. I am looking forward to a fair and impartial debate and
we will continue to keep all of you updated on our progress!

Sincerely,

Naisy Dolar
Candidate, 50th Ward Alderman

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Marissa Graciosa
Date: Mar 31, 2007 9:23 PM
Subject: Stone/Dolar Debate on April 12
To: michaelcmoses,jonathanb

Mr. Michael Moses:

I'm writing in response to your proposal for a debate between
Naisy Dolar and Alderman Bernard Stone to be held on Thursday, April
12 at 7:00 PM. We welcome the opportunity for Naisy to appear side-
by-side with Alderman Stone, however, when we last spoke on the
phone, Sunday March 18, many details were not established. The
following is a list of issues that need to be resolved to confirm
our participation in this debate:

1) We need to have a mutually agreed upon location secured
by 5:00 PM on Tuesday April 3, 2007.
2) We need to mutually agree upon a format for this debate
by 5:00 PM on Wednesday, April 4, 2007.
3) We need to mutually agree upon and secure an impartial
moderator, preferably a member of the media, by 5:00 PM on Thursday,
April 5, 2007.
4) We need to mutually agree upon and secure a timekeeper by
5:00 PM on Thursday, April 5, 2007.
5) We would like the names and contact information for the
leaders from the other community groups sponsoring the event—in
particular the Jewish Community Council of West Rogers Park and the
Peterson Park Improvement Association so we can verify their
participation. Of your three sponsors I was able to contact Mr.
Abdul Wahid, President of the Pakistani American Business
Association, who did not have any knowledge of the debate.
6) Neighbors for Naisy Dolar will secure three additional
sponsors for the debate by 5:00 PM on Wednesday, April 4, 2007.

Thus far the Stone campaign has made all of the arrangements for
the debate without our consultation. These conditions are necessary
to ensure that the debate is fair and beneficial to both
candidates.

We are hopeful that you will work with us in providing the
residents of the 50th ward with the opportunity to see Naisy and
Alderman Stone meet face-to-face and discuss the issues that matter
in the ward. I will call you on Monday, April 2, 2007 to discuss
further.

Sincerely,

Marissa Graciosa
Campaign Manager
Neighbors for Naisy Dolar

 
At April 12, 2007 1:51 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Also, as Zach Schiffman of the, West Rogers Park Community Organization WR stated: "as I
explained to Michael Moses, the WRPCO has become identified with certain 'signature issues'--such as education--that we would like to see addressed by the candidates."

Practically the only charge or evil I have NOT heard levied against Stone is that he has influenced principal hiring or packed the LSCs in the ward. If he had, I'm sure we'd be hearing about it. Getting peppered with education specific questions is not the best use of time in an aldermanic debate. If you don't believe me, take a look at yet another blog: http://district299.typepad.com/district299/2006/07/whats_going_on_.html

 
At April 12, 2007 3:50 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

fact checker said...
Has Hugh posted anything that is not backed up legitimate sources? I can't understand your disinformation campaign against Hugh when he cites numerous sources for his information. He provides links to the relevant facts and links to video and audio of our soon to be ex-alderman

April 11, 2007 8:05 PM

Hughh takes public records which otherwise are relatively unknown, blast the over the internet and then distort facts. Some of these record have people contacted information when then cause those private citizens to be caught in the middle.

Hugh does not understand the effects of his action cause and Hugh gets worse when you approach him via the internet.

Well on April 18 Hugh will start feeling the results of his actions. Seems that he has some skeletons in his clostet that you can find on the internet and come next Wednesday he will see the effects via legal and statuatory action.


Jay please forgive the rant

 
At April 12, 2007 9:57 AM, Blogger Hugh said...

> The debate is sponsored by:

> Pakistan American Business Association

> Of your three sponsors I was able to contact Mr. Abdul Wahid, President of the Pakistani American Business Association, who did not have any knowledge of the debate.

PAK AMERICAN BUSINESS ASSOCIATION, INC.
(since 2004)

Old business name
PAKISTANI BUSINESS ASSOCIATION OF CHICAGO, INC.

Agent Name
ABDUL WAHID BUTT (since 12/26/2003)

Agent Street Address
62XX N CALIFORNIA AVE STE 104

Sabri Nihari Inc.
Abdul Wahid Butt, owner
2511 W. Devon Ave.
Chicago, IL 60659

to Bernard L Stone Campaign Committee

$1,000.00 12/18/2006
$1,000.00 6/11/2002

$2,000.00 total

to Democratic Club of the 50th Ward
Bernard L. Stone, Chairman
Ilana Feketitsch, Treasurer

$1,000.00 6/7/2005
$1,000.00 6/15/2004

$2,000.00 total

Sindhu, Shaukat
XXX N Elmhurst Rd
Prospect Heights, IL 60070-1502
Occupation: Chairman
Employer: Pakistani American Association

$2,000.00 2/1/2007 to Bernard L Stone Campaign Committee
$250.00 5/6/2003 to Bernard L Stone Campaign Committee
$1,000.00 2/28/2003 to Bernard L Stone Campaign Committee
$500.00 6/25/2002 to Bernard L Stone Campaign Committee
$1,000.00 7/13/2000 to Bernard L Stone Campaign Committee

$4750 total

More...

IL SOS Corporate/LLC Search

Illinois State Board of Elections Campaign Disclosure

Restaurateur plans to rebuild after fire

Stone: Availability of $50K public subsidies, fire a coincidence

 
At April 12, 2007 12:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I find Hugh tedious and like the boy who cried wolf, I'm sure anything important he has to say gets lost in the mountain of information he feels compelled to forward.

But, please no threats about litigation or skeletons--we all have them and it is not useful or fair to bring that stuff up.

 

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